Joining the show for all things GOP debate are Mike Barnicle, Nicolle Wallace, John Heilemann, Richard Haass, Donald Trump, Bill Kristol, Kasie Hunt, Steve Schmidt, Gov. Chris Christie, Rep. Adam Kinzinger, Amy Holmes, Carly Fiorina, Michelle Caruso-Cabrera, Nancy Gibbs and more
That was a long debate last night.
Overall, I think Chris Christie did extremely well and he maybe even did the best last night as far as sprouting up from being down in the polls. I thought Carly Fiorina was great and probably the best one out there although her final speech about Lady Liberty and Lady Justice was a bit weak.
I thought Rand Paul was non existent until the prison issue came up and then he did well after that subject.
Jeb Bush was basically nowhere again until his final joke about him being known as 'Ever ready' because he has a lot of of energy, and Mike Huckabee did great content wise when he did get a chance to speak. I think he spoke three times and one time he had to force it.
The Donald (Trump) was humbled in my eyes. He came out fighting and then he was nowhere the rest of the night and he was especially nowhere when everyone else was talking about issues.
The one thing Trump did well was get at Jeb Bush more than a few times. Bush made it out that Donald Trump gave him money when that was just not true. Evidently, Trump tried to get casinos in Florida which Bush construed as him trying to give him money. That is a farce and it was a borderline lie.
I hardly even heard John Kasich all night. I thought at one point in the evening Dr. Ben Carson was about to yawn.
Ted Cruz was awful and Marco Rubio was fine at times, but not all of the time.
Again, three hours is way too long and it was not as if they wanted to fill it with commercial ads. They did not leave the debate until an hour and ten minutes after it started and then they did not leave it again for a commercial until the 10PM hour and then they left for a set of commercials again at 1050PM.
A lot of the times, the candidates themselves had to interrupt to just chime in to say anything which the panel did allow to happen. Many people wanted to make a point and were given the ability to do it but they had to yell there way in
The ONLY real breakthrough was with Chris Christie while Carly Fiorina cranked the entire night. The only thing Christie did wrong was lie again about his appointment into office being on September 10, 2011 when he was appointed actually in December that year.
For Trump to really win this primary in the end, he is going to have deal in constructive and substantive ways. He still just spews out how he would be the best at something without saying how.
The GOP debate: 6 takeaways from POLITICO: At the Reagan Library debate, Fiorina crashed the boys club and Trump was low-energy.
Carly Fiorina -- the lone woman among 10 male GOP candidates onstage -- was very nearly excluded from the second debate of 2016 at the Reagan Library. Donald Trump probably wishes she had been.
The former Hewlett-Packard CEO – whose face was the subject of a patented Trump diss in Rolling Stone – emerged as the single most effective counter-puncher against the glib reality-TV star with a penchant for picking public fights with strong women. She stopped the seemingly unstoppable Trump cold in his tracks, pointedly challenging the developer on his repeated claims that he was a “terrific” businessman who had earned the right to wear the Republican outsider crown.
Whether Fiorina is able to seriously challenge Trump or second-place Ben Carson is an open question. As the poll-crazy Trump points out, he’s pushing 30 percent nationally and all the professional politicians on the stage are in single digits.
But one thing was clear Wednesday: The Trump joy ride is over, and the race looks to get a lot more competitive as he tries to transform his castle made of bombast into a truly functional campaign.
With that in mind, here are six takeaways:
1. Trump was, well, low-energy.
Trump has gleefully defied predictions that his campaign would collapse in the fall. That hasn’t happened. Yet one of the major questions when Trump jumped into the campaign in June – articulated by longtime buddies like Sirius XM host Howard Stern – was how much does he really want it? Would the jet-setting billionaire actually sacrifice his putting-green-and-penthouse lifestyle to endure the soul-sapping grind of a presidential campaign?
On Wednesday, for the first time in his fairytale rise to Republican dominance, Trump looked fed up and exhausted, leaning on his podium as his opponents ganged up, one after the other, to batter him. The quips were there – he began by claiming he wasn’t “braggadocious” (If that’s a word) and continued torturing favorite punching bags Jeb Bush and Rand Paul – but it seemed that some of the fun has gone out of the enterprise.
It was inevitable: During the first debate, five weeks ago in Cleveland, all of his opponents treated him like an uncaged tiger (Ohio Gov. John Kasich described him as the living embodiment of the nation’s rage). But the hands-off-Trump rule was suspended – and he had to defend himself against body blows from Bush, Paul, Marco Rubio, Fiorina and Scott Walker.
As usual, he didn’t let a single attack go undefended. But as opponents like Bush and Rubio gained confidence and energy as the marathon debate dragged on, Trump slumped – his voice hoarsened and the pace of his outbursts slowed to a trickle.
2. Carly Fiorina crashes the boys club.
The former CEO – who was only a so-so debater during her unsuccessful 2010 challenge to California Democratic Sen. Barbara Boxer – was stiletto sharp during her confrontations with Trump. When the CNN moderators asked her about Trump’s quip (“Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?!"), she coolly responded: “Women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said," as the audience hooted and the developer squirmed on the split-screen. A shaken Trump responded by saying, "she’s got a beautiful face and she's a beautiful woman.”
The biggest applause line of the night – by far – came earlier in the debate when Fiorina spoke passionately about the controversy surrounding Planned Parenthood’s treatment of fetal tissue when she spoke about an unborn child’s “beating heart” being stopped by an abortion doctor. Later, Fiorina – who had been criticized for a steely, severe demeanor in her 2010 race – spoke movingly about the death of her 35-year-old stepdaughter who died in 2009 after a long battle with drugs.
The two most tweeted moments of the debate weren’t Trump zingers, according to Twitter; they were “@CarlyFiorina responds to @realDonaldTrump on her looks” and “@CarlyFiorina on Planned Parenthood.”
3. Jeb Bush smacked Trump -- literally.
The former Florida governor needed to prove to voters (and his own donors) that he was willing to fight after a lackluster first debate – and he accomplished that, barely. His first stab at an attack on Trump ended badly: A few minutes into the debate, he launched a prepared attack against Trump’s long-ago attempt to sell him on allowing casinos in Florida. It backfired. Trump parried him easily with, “More energy tonight. I like that.” Worse still, Trump interrupted Bush – and Bush only began speaking again when Trump told him to “go ahead.”
Undeterred, Bush went on the attack again, the next time hitting Trump for insulting his wife Columba in a tweet a few weeks ago. Bush, polite to a fault, demanded that his opponent apologize directly to her; Trump refused the offer, but his face reddened. Bush was more passionate in defending his brother’s legacy in Iraq – pointedly telling Trump, who opposed the war, that Bush 43 had kept him “safe.”
But the signature moment of Bush’s night – and a rare public expression of the candidate’s oft-hidden competitiveness – came when CNN moderator Jake Tapper asked a seemingly innocuous question: If elected what nickname should the Secret Service give him?
“Ever Ready!” Bush declared, in a nod to the battery brand, “very high energy!”
When Trump smiled and extended a hand, Bush – who has been deeply frustrated by his failure to break out of the single digits – bit down on his lower lip, and slammed a semi-balled fist down hard on the developer’s outstretched paw.
4. Ben Carson floated like a butterfly – and didn’t get stung by the bees.
Carson, the soft-spoken conservative neurosurgeon, is playing by a different set of rules than the other candidates. The Republican base wants fight from its warriors, but Carson – who breathes right-wing fire on the lecture circuit – has proven to be as stubbornly civil as any top-tier contender in either party. To some, his low-key approach reads somnambulant (During the debate, former Obama White House aide Tommy Vietor tweeted “Ben Carson is like verbal Xanax.”).
But it’s working for him. He’s gaining fast on Trump, in part, because he’s got the same outsider bona fides -- but without the bombast. He passed on nearly every opportunity to go on the attack against anyone – other than the president, Hillary Clinton and the Washington establishment. For their part, the other candidates seemed content to leave him in peace.
His one mildly contentious exchange came after Trump and Bush clashed over the corrupting influence of campaign contributions: Carson who has raised millions from small donors told his opponents he wouldn’t “lick the boots of billionaires” – a barb aimed at big-money Republicans like Bush, whose fundraising operation has raised more than $100 million so far.
If Carson continues his rise – and surpasses Trump -- he will face a much tougher time at the next debate, on October 28 in Boulder, Colorado.
5. Lindsey Graham stole the first debate.
Every reporter who has covered the South Carolina senator on Capitol Hill knows how smart and funny he can be – which is why his stuttering, nervous performance in the first debate came as such a surprise. But he was a man transformed under the wing of Ronald Reagan’s Air Force One in California, enlivening what might have been a forgettable four-person undercard debate.
In explaining his support for immigration reform, Graham spoke of the need to import younger immigrants to offset the rapid aging of the native population in the U.S. – unless, he said, Americans followed the example of the late former South Carolina senator, Strom Thurmond. "Strom Thurmond had four kids after age 67. If you're not willing to do that, we need to come up with a new immigration system," he quipped.
But Graham’s slow-drawl, fast-draw style also led to one big mistake. When lecturing his fellow candidates on the need to address working-class pocketbook issues, he committed a cardinal conservative sin. “"Hillary Clinton has a list a mile long to help the middle class,” he said – and the quote was dutifully emailed around by Democratic groups.
6. Marco Rubio’s alive. Scott Walker’s on life support.
Marco Rubio and Scott Walker are both lingering in the middle-single digits but they are clearly moving in opposite directions – and the debate starkly illuminated their divergent paths. Rubio, who is probably the most gifted natural orator on the GOP side, has kept a fairly low profile over the first few months of the campaign, hoping to turn on the jets in December when (he believes) Trump will swoon. The boyish-looking Florida senator lashed Trump on foreign policy – and offered a comeback to the reality star’s demand that presidential candidates speak English on the trail. Rubio spoke about his grandfather, a Cuban immigrant, who spoke Spanish – but taught him to love Ronald Reagan.
Walker, the Wisconsin governor, has fallen hard and fast – from solid double-digits and third place before the first debate to barely above the margin of error now. He did little to differentiate himself from the pack on Wednesday night, and his stab at Trump bashing was less effective than attacks launched by Fiorina, Rubio and Bush. He began with a canned line (“Mr. Trump, we don't need an apprentice in the White House”) – but soon found himself on the defensive when Trump roasted him for running up a big deficit.
NBC News reported its analysis about the debate last night:
GOP Debate: Four Things We Learned From Second Republican Showdown.
The second presidential debate, held at the Ronald Reagan Library in California Wednesday night, was much different than the first. Here's a closer look at how:
There Is a War Against Trump
This debate was the latest sign that influential Republicans are increasingly worried that Donald Trump could become the party's nominee, and they are determined to stop him.
A day after a major conservative group, the Club for Growth, launched a series of ads targeting Trump, several of his rival candidates at the debate in California aggressively attacked the man who leads the polls of the Republican race.
Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul referred to Trump as "sophomoric." Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush demanded Trump apologize to Bush's wife, Columba, for suggesting Bush's views have been largely shaped by the fact that he is married to someone who is Mexican-American. Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker said, "We don't need an apprentice in the White House, we have already have one."
Carly Fiorina cast Trump as a "wonderful entertainer" and slammed his business acumen, noting that four companies he has been associated with have gone bankrupt.
"He supported Clinton, he supported Schumer, he supported Pelosi," Bush said, referring to campaign funds Trump has provided to some leading Democrats.
Trump, as is his trademark, had plenty of attacks of his own. Trump has repeatedly mocked Bush as low-energy, so after the former governor kept trying to interrupt Trump, the mogul needled him, saying, "more high-energy tonight, I like that."
Carly Fiorina Is the Best Informed of the Outsiders
When the debate entered a detailed discussion about U.S. foreign policy with China, Iran and Syria, it was as if Ben Carson and Trump left the stage. Neither man spoke very much. On the other hand, Fiorina was clearly fluent on national security and offered precise answers on nearly all policy questions.
Carson at times seemed unsure of his own positions on issues. He backtracked from previous comments that Trump's immigration proposals are unrealistic. He said he was "possibly" or "probably" for increasing the minimum wage.
Trump said he would learn more about foreign policy issues once he was elected president.
Trump Is Not Going to Start Acting Like a Traditional Candidate
Trump started the debate with a joke about why Paul was on stage, considering how low he is in polls. He said ex-New York Gov. George Pataki, another 2016 GOP candidate, today "wouldn't be elected dogcatcher."
The mogul defended his proposal for building a wall between Mexico and the United States and his view that Bush should not speak Spanish in public.
"He was number one. Now you're number six or number seven in the polls," Trump told Walker, referring to the governor's slide in Iowa polls.
Marco Rubio and John Kasich Are Taking the Trump-Less Strategy
While Bush in particular seemed determined to blast Trump, two of the other more moderate candidates, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and Ohio Gov. John Kasich, went out of their way not to attack the mogul. Kasich went further: he wouldn't attack Hillary Clinton either, unlike nearly all of the other candidates.
Both Rubio and Kasich seem to taking a longer view of the nomination process, namely that they don't have to rush to take Trump down. Responding to Trump's argument that people in the U.S. should assimilate by speaking English, Rubio spoke of his grandfather becoming a conservative Republican while largely communicating in Spanish. He defended those in America who speak Spanish but did not rebuke Trump.
Top 10 Zingers of the Second GOP Debate by Rolling Stone Magazine. Carly Fiorina was aggressive and confident, while Donald Trump alternated between brash and oddly subdued
There were attacks galore in the surprisingly nasty second GOP debate on CNN — fittingly sponsored by a pharmaceutical that combats toenail fungus.
The event itself was revealing. In her first debate on the main stage, Carly Fiorina was aggressive and confident and pushed past more established candidates to stand as the top challenger to frontrunner Donald Trump.
The Donald himself alternated between trademark Trump — brash and "braggadocious," even as he proclaimed modesty — and being oddly subdued. But when he wanted to alpha dog an opponent, he did, and Jeb Bush paid the price. Repeatedly.
Marco Rubio had some fine moments on foreign policy — though he also stood out as a ferocious climate change denier. Rand Paul quietly had a strong debate — clearly contrasting his libertarian leanings against big government heavies like Chris Christie. Slow-and-steady Ben Carson didn't have a breakout night — but he's running as the tortoise to the jackrabbits in the field and his slow-jam RPM seemed to work for him.
The debate was particularly painful for Scott Walker and Chris Christie, who performed adequately, but failed to land any defining blows that could change their luck.
Here the top ten zingers of the night.
1. The debate started hot with Sen. Rand Paul complaining of Trump's "sophomoric" attacks on the looks of his fellow candidates. Trump replied: "I've never attacked him on his looks — and believe me, there's plenty of subject matter right there."
2. In the defining moment of the night, Trump and Bush were fighting for control of the stage. Jeb had accused Trump of being part of a corrupt system — lobbying for casino gambling in Florida. The challenge led to noisy overtalk, with Jeb trying to assert his dominance. Trump seized control with a backhanded one liner: "More energy tonight. I like that!" Jeb shrank, and Trump owned the remainder of the exchange.
3. Hitting a man while he's down, Trump also lashed out at Scott Walker, highlighting the governor's lousy economic record in Wisconsin: "When the people of Iowa found that out, I went to number one, you went down the tuuuubes."
4. Fiorina got the best of Trump in the exchange over his slight of her "face" in the cover story in Rolling Stone. Fiorina's moment was strongest because Trump had just been needling Jeb for saying he "misspoke" when he said America spent too much on women's health and insisting that President Trump would be "wonderful" for women. The "face" question that followed by debate moderator Jake Tapper included Trump's prevarication that he hadn't meant to impugn Fiorina's looks. Fiorina said only: "I think women heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said."
5. Trump quickly returned fire over Fiorina's sad-sack record as the CEO of HP, which was particularly effective after Fiorina had held up her record as if she'd been the second coming of Steve Jobs: "She can't run any of my companies, I tell ya."
6. Paying special attention to Rand Paul, Trump also needled the Kentucky senator over his low poll numbers. He started the debate insisting Paul shouldn't even be on the stage as the 11th ranking Republican. Midway through the debate, he cut short Paul's attempt to get a word in edgewise, with a dismissive, "You've got your 1 percent."
7. Hitting Jeb on family values, Trump also gave it to Bush over running the Republican brand into the ground: "Your brother gave us Barack Obama," Trump insisted. "Such a disaster those last three months, Abraham Lincoln couldn't have been elected."
8. After Trump outed himself out as a big-time anti-vaxxer, linking childhood vaccines to autism (against all evidence), Dr. Ben Carson had a quietly biting line:"He's an OK doctor," he said, before insisting, "We have extremely well documented proof that there's no link."
9. Jeb had one good one-liner, saying that his Secret Service codename would be "Eveready" — like the battery — quipping, "It's very high-energy, Donald" to peals of laughter.
10. But Trump one-upped Jeb to the last, even in self-deprecation. His Secret Service name, he insisted, would be "Humble."
A bonus item:
This was a GOP debate, but Hillary Clinton got in one of the best lines of the night. During the debate, when the Republicans were dissing one another for speaking Spanish, she tweeted, "La libertad incluye el derecho de hablar en cualquier idioma. Eso nos hace fuerte como paÃs y es algo que debemos celebrar—no denigrar." (Translation: Liberty includes the right to speak in any language. That makes us strong as a country and is something we should celebrate — not denigrate.)
Still, Trump dominated the night’s conversation — with other candidates often asked to react to things he’d said. He finished off in typical Trump fashion, promising in essence to give Americans more of everything they want.
Donald (Trump) is on now. Trump Wins Drudge Report Debate Poll which he has brought up now at least 15 times since leaving the stage last night.
Billionaire Donald Trump is the winner of the Drudge Report Poll taken following the first Republican presidential debate.
Texas Sen. Ted Cruz came in second place in the online poll of more than 190,000 Drudge Report visitors, which was taken directly following the debate on Thursday night. The poll only included the candidates who participated in the Fox News debate with the top 10 candidates.
Google Trends said on Twitter than Fiorina was the "top searched [name] in more states than any other #GOPdebate early candidates."
Fiorina +19k
Carson +18k
Trump +10k
Bush +6k
Rubio +6k
Kasich +2k
Cruz +2k
Paul +2k
Huck +1k
Walker +1k
Texas Sen. Ted Cruz came in second place in the online poll of more than 190,000 Drudge Report visitors, which was taken directly following the debate on Thursday night. The poll only included the candidates who participated in the Fox News debate with the top 10 candidates.
- Ted Cruz: 15.5 percent
- Neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson: 10.2 percent
- Florida Sen. Marco Rubio: 9.7 percent
- Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul: 9.3 percent
- Ohio Gov. John Kasich: 4.9 percent
- Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker: 4.5 percent
- Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee: 3.5 percent
- Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush: 2.5 percent
- New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie: 1.4 percent
Google Trends said on Twitter than Fiorina was the "top searched [name] in more states than any other #GOPdebate early candidates."
Fiorina +19k
Carson +18k
Trump +10k
Bush +6k
Rubio +6k
Kasich +2k
Cruz +2k
Paul +2k
Huck +1k
Walker +1k
Here is a breakdown of the poll results:
Donald Trump: 38 percent
Several political pundits said that former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina was the winner of the first debate, which included the seven Republican presidential candidates, who didn't make the top 10.
.@CarlyFiorina is top searched in more states than any other #GOPdebate early candidates
https://www.google.com/trends/story/US_cu_pMFd-k4BAAC3uM_en …
.@CarlyFiorina is top searched in more states than any other #GOPdebate early candidates
google.com/trends/story/U…
Donald (Trump) maintains that everyone did very well although he says that Carly did not do as well as everyone says she did, but again, he does think everyone did pretty well. Including Jeb Bush. He even said he had some better energy last night. Oh Good. Joe asked Donald about the casinos in Florida issue which Donald says he was not involved in it. Donald said he was surprised Jeb bush even tried use it against him.
Richard Haas just asked Donald about the climate issue which he does not believe is a problem for the world. Donald Trump has said global warming is a hoax created by the Chinese so that the United States would not be competitive in manufacturing, a contention scientists scoff at. The billionaire reality TV star also has criticized the Obama administration for “the billions it pissed away” investing in failed green energy projects. On numerous occasions, Trump has brought up the persistence of temperate zone seasons as an argument against the existence of climate change. “It’s snowing & freezing in NYC. What the hell ever happened to global warming?” he tweeted in March 2013.
The panel maintains that the first part of the debate was a (Donald) Trump personality test. Donald feels it was unfair to the other candidates because they did not get any time.
That's it for that interview.
I personally did not think that Trump had a great night last night. Honestly, when he starts saying that whomever is great and beautiful as a response and after he blasted whomever in some way, it happens when he is on heels. And, when he has nothing to say about it. It is a lot like how a bully would respond after they get bullied back.
Chris Christie and Carly Fiorina are also calling in today.
Bill Kristol is on now. I thought he was going to be on tomorrow. He blasted Trump over the last couple months. Let's see what he has to say now. Bill is laughing out loud before he is even asked a question. He agree's that (Carly) Fiorina won the night last night. I guess she did do well in that sense that she was very prepared because her answers were very rigid but they did not seem rehearsed (until the final one that I mentioned above here (about Lady Liberty and Lady Justice which BTW, who is Lady Justice? I never heard of it being referred to as a her before her final speech last night)).
OMG. I totally forgot to mention Scott Walker today. I just remembered him as we are watching when Kasie Hunt interviewed him after the debate last night. Walker was non existent even though the panel says he came out strong.
To be honest, I missed the first twenty minutes or so of the debate because I assumed it started at 9PM. Chris Hayes' show was on and he was not doing anything about the debate but then my friend IM'ed me to ask if I had it on. I also spent like three minutes trying to find what channel CNN was on my cable network.
I was astonished to see that it was a three hour debate. I commented on it within the first hour.
Jeb Bush was interviewed after the debate last night and he is just so hesitant on every level. He says things about his brother which is prefaced by an "I love my brother" and its just s a waste of a sentence. It is implied that whomever loves their brother, let alone in that family. And, he has done that many times and speaking of which, Trump zinged him greatly by saying that Bush changed his stance hours later about something (I forget the subject) and it was so true. Jeb Bush never knows what to say and he never says a thing any more with any great conviction. Jeb Bush still doesn’t know how to go for the jugular.
The former Florida governor came to the second Republican presidential debate at the Reagan Library here Wednesday evening ready to put Donald Trump on defense, and he did so. But once he maneuvered Trump into an uncomfortable position, Bush let the current frontrunner off the mat.
Early in the CNN-hosted debate, moderator Jake Tapper asked Bush if he was a “puppet” for donors. It’s a charge that Trump, a wealthy businessman, has repeatedly lobbed at his rivals. It’s a big reason why many Trump supporters say they like him. Trump can’t be bought, his supporters say.
Bush quickly pivoted to a real-life example of a rich donor who had tried to influence his decisions when he was governor of Florida, from 1999 to 2007.
“The one guy that had some special interests that I know of that tried to get me to change my views on something, that was generous and gave me money, was Donald Trump. He wanted casino gambling in Florida,” Bush said.
This is a true story. It was reported by CNN two weeks ago, with extensive documentation, no doubt with the full cooperation of the Bush campaign. Trump hosted a fundraiser for Bush, gave money to the Florida GOP, and had hired a lobbyist to push for an expansion of gambling in the state with hopes of building a casino. Bush killed the idea.
But when Bush started in on this topic, Trump denied it. “I didn’t,” he said.
“Yes you did,” Bush said.
“Totally false,” Trump maintained.
“You wanted it and you didn’t get it because I was opposed,” Bush said. “I’m not going to be bought by anybody.”
Having flatly denied a story that is demonstrably true, Trump switched tactics, employing sarcasm.
“I promise if I wanted it, I would have gotten it,” Trump said to some laughter.
After a few more moments of back and forth, Bush stopped talking. Rather than pressing in with more details, he let the issue drop. He could have mentioned the fundraiser Trump held for him or the $50,000 Trump gave to the Florida GOP, or named the lobbyist that Trump hired to press for an expansion of gambling in Florida. But he eased up.
But multiple Bush advisers after the debate cast the exchange in a bigger context, saying that Trump had been exposed and that the result would echo around the Internet and into one-on-one conversations between friends, neighbors and family members. “It’s not always what happens on the stage,” said Bush adviser Trent Wisecup.
They also felt that Bush had several other moments of strength, particularly his defense of his older brother, former President George W. Bush, over his record of protecting the country from terrorism after the 9/11 attacks.
A few moments later, Bush even switched attacks, talking about Hillary Clinton’s attendance at Trump’s wedding in 2005. That was a distraction from the gambling debate, which actually is an issue that goes to the core of a key critique that Trump has made of Bush and others. It is a way for Bush to bolster his credentials and lower Trump’s. And moments later, Bush did return to the attack on that point.
But Bush did not offer more details, and Trump continued to deny it. In fact, he accused Bush of making up the story. Bush let that stand, rather than pressing his advantage.
It was a similar dynamic later in the debate when Trump criticized Bush for saying last month that he didn’t think $500 million should be spent on women’s health. Bush’s comment was clearly a reference to federal funding for Planned Parenthood, and Bush later clarified as much after he said it.
But when Trump went after him, Bush did not explain himself.
“I think it will haunt him. I think it’s terrible,” Trump said.
Bush talked about his record as governor and his pro-life credentials. But Trump pressed him.
“Why did you say it? I heard it myself. Why did you say it?” Trump said.
“We increased child support with a broken system by 90 percent,” Bush said.
“You said you’re going to cut funding for women’s health. You said it,” Trump said.
Rather than correcting Trump, Bush let the accusation that he wants to cut all funding for women’s health stand.
“I have a proven record. I have a proven record,” is all he said.
Near the halfway point, in a third showdown between Bush and Trump, Bush did show more forcefulness, telling Trump he should apologize for suggesting that Bush’s views on immigration are not conservative enough because his wife Columba is a Mexican-born immigrant to the United States.
Interactive: Where the candidates stand on the issues >>>
“To subject my wife into the middle of a raucous political conversation was completely inappropriate, and I hope you apologize for that, Donald,” Bush said. “She is absolutely the love of my life, and she’s right here. And why don’t you apologize to her right now.”
Trump refused. “No, I won’t do that, because I’ve said nothing wrong,” he said.
Bush then used the moment to contrast what he called “the Reagan approach, the hopeful optimistic approach, the approach that says that, you come to our country legally, you pursue your dreams with a vengeance, you create opportunities for all of us” with “the Donald Trump approach … that says that everything is bad, that everything is coming to an end.”
But Bush’s lack of ability to pin Trump to the wall on issues that are clear winners for him remains a troubling weak spot for the man who was the frontrunner over the first half of the year but who now finds himself trailing Trump and retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson in the national polling and in the early primary states.
Debates at this early stage are largely about contrast. The primary is a culling process. And so the ways in which candidates collide and disagree and respond to one another is the clearest way in which voters can see the differences between them.
It may be that Wednesday night’s debate began the process of shrinking Trump down to size regardless of how Bush did in his confrontations with the celebrity TV star. The nearly three-hour session was dominated by detailed discussion of policy, which is not Trump’s strength. He was larger than life in the first debate in Cleveland, which had more of a feeling of a three-ring circus than the showdown in Simi Valley. And as this primary goes on, it might be that the steady, slow process of debating issues is what erodes Trump’s support, rather than any one moment.
But Bush’s interactions with Trump are a test of his mettle as a leader. And while he showed some verve, he didn’t come across as forcefully as he will need to.
Bush campaign staffers created a video clip where they pasted Bush’s head on the body of a WWE wrestler body slamming Trump to the mat. They wanted to promote the idea that he had scored a knockout. But that wasn’t quite the case.
Joe has just made the best point about Jeb which is that does anyone think for one second that George Bush Jr. and/or Senior for that matter would not have shredded the likes of Donald Trump? Because Jeb cannot do it. He won't do it. And, he needs to do it to rise up to the top of this primary group.
Chris Christie is on the show being interviewed live now. Chris Christie had the best night in my eyes. He went from being way low to way high whereas a Carly Fiorina continued to be at high (from a high level). That is why I called him the breakthrough candidate from last night. Carly may have been considered to be the best if you will, but again, Chris Christie rose in a huge way. He should blow up now.
Christie is doing well here too. He has a pep in his step which is good to see because I totally forgot about him over the last few weeks. His name has not even be mentioned anywhere over the last month.
I agree with Mika in that I do NOT agree with one word these people talk about so remember that fact please. I am just talking about how they did in the debate last night.
Is Lindsey Graham on now too? Wow. He actually did very well last night at the 'kids table' in that debate. I must admit that when it comes to foreign policy, he does well. I do NOT agree with a word he says about it, but he comes off well about it within that GOP. Plus, he is funny. He does crack me up every time we see an interview of him. I think Lindsey Graham did very well last night. But everyone at the early debate has accumulative poll results of like 1.2% and i mean them all combined and added up. They all are polling at less than 1%. Regardless, Lindsey is not on the show. They just showed excerpts of him last night. I like the line about how we need to drink more. That is quintessential Lindsey Graham. Plus, he beat Thomas Ravanel (Southern Charm TV Show) in that last election which was real funny to see.
Carly (Fiorina) is being interviewed live on on the show. The headlines everywhere today are all about how Carly won the night. Carly Fiorina won the debate, but fact checkers will have a field day.
At Wednesday's CNN debate, Carly Fiorina did what no other Republican has been able to do: she stopped Donald Trump cold.
CNN's Jake Tapper provided the opening. "In an interview last week in Rolling Stone magazine, Donald Trump said the following about you. Quote, 'Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?' Mr. Trump later said he was talking about your persona, not your appearance. Please feel free to respond what you think about his persona."
Fiorina didn't flinch. "I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said."
Then Fiorina did something unusual for a candidate on a debate stage. She went silent. She let her seconds tick away. And the cheers rocked the auditorium.
Trump was left to stammer out a peace offering. "I think she's got a beautiful face and I think she's a beautiful woman," he said, smiling hopefully. But Fiorina didn't give an inch. She stood there stone-faced. On the split screen, Trump's pleading grin looked weak and desperate.
This is the second debate Fiorina won. She dominated the JV stage in the Fox News debate, forcing CNN to change the rules to ensure she made the main stage in their event. She validated their decision tonight. She had the crispest answers, received the biggest cheers, and proved the only candidate on the stage capable of standing against Trump. She made everyone else on the stage — especially Trump — look unprepared. But she did it in part by playing fast and loose with the facts. Her barrage of specifics often obscured a curious detachment from reality.
Fiorina was everything Trump wasn't
One example of Fiorina's powerful contrast with Trump came when the debate turned to foreign policy. Trump was asked what would do to get the Russians out of Syria. His answer was a meandering paean to his own likability:
I would talk to [Putin]. I would get along with him. I believe — and I may be wrong, in which case I'd probably have to take a different path, but I would get along with a lot of the world leaders that this country is not getting along with.
We don't get along with China. We don't get along with the heads of Mexico. We don't get along with anybody, and yet, at the same time, they rip us left and right. They take advantage of us economically and every other way. We get along with nobody. I will get along — I think — with Putin, and I will get along with others, and we will have a much more stable — stable world.
Compare that with Fiorina's crisp, machine-gun specifics:
What I would do, immediately, is begin rebuilding the Sixth Fleet, I would begin rebuilding the missile defense program in Poland, I would conduct regular, aggressive military exercises in the Baltic states. I'd probably send a few thousand more troops into Germany. Vladimir Putin would get the message. By the way, the reason it is so critically important that every one of us know General Suleimani's name is because Russia is in Syria right now, because the head of the Quds force traveled to Russia and talked Vladimir Putin into aligning themselves with Iran and Syria to prop up Bashar al- Assad.
Message: unlike Trump, I actually know what the hell I'm talking about.
A similar contrast was evident on the one issue Trump is actually supposed to understand: immigration. "The 14th amendment says clearly to a lot of great legal scholars, not television scholars but legal scholars, it is wrong," Trump said. "It can be corrected with an act of congress, probably doesn't even need that."
Um, no, Fiorina replied. "The truth is, you can't just wave your hands and say 'the 14th Amendment is gonna go away.' It will take an extremely arduous vote in Congress, followed by two-thirds of the states, and if that doesn't work to amend the Constitution, then it is a long, arduous process in court."
She went on to say that Obama "could have chosen to do anything to solve this problem. Instead, he chose to do nothing. Why? because the Democrats don't want this issue solved."
Trump, at this point, gave in. "I agree 100 percent, by the way, with Carly on the fact that the Democrats do not want to solve this problem."
Stylistically, the night was a win for Fiorina who, over and over again, seemed to actually know what she was talking about. And viewers noticed:
Twitter followers gained tonight
The problem, substantively, was that Fiorina didn't actually know what she was talking about.
Fact checkers will have a field day with Fiorina: Her answer on Russia, for instance, was bizarre.
The Sixth Fleet is already huge, and it's hard to say why adding to its capabilities would intimidate Putin — after all, America has enough nuclear weapons pointed at Russia to level the country thousands of times over. Her proposal for more military exercises in the Baltics seemed odd in light of the fact that President Obama is already conducting military exercises in the Baltics. And the US already has around 40,000 troops stationed in Germany, so it's hard to say what good "a few thousand" more would do. And pushing on a missile defense system in Poland is a very long-term solution to a very current problem. In total, Fiorina's laundry list of proposals sure sounded like a plan, but on inspection, it's hard to see why any of them would convince Putin to change course.
Her immigration answer was also odd to anyone who knew the issue's recent history. It's true Obama didn't immediately push immigration reform when he took office, but it was his top priority after reelection, and he spent a solid year trying to make the Senate's comprehensive immigration-reform bill — the one crafted, in part, by Sen. Marco Rubio — into law. That legislation was stopped by Republicans in the House of Representatives, not by the Democrat in the White House. "Send me a comprehensive immigration reform bill in the next few months," Obama begged in 2013, "and I will sign it right away."
Or take her biggest applause line of the night: a riff on the Planned Parenthood tapes that set conservative Twitter afire. "I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, it's heart beating, it's legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."
The only problem? Nothing like that happens in the Planned Parenthood tapes. As Sarah Kliff, who has watched all the tapes, wrote, "either Fiorina hasn't watched the Planned Parenthood videos or she is knowingly misrepresenting the footage."
This has become something of a habit for Fiorina, who has a notable facility for delivering answers that thrill conservatives but fall apart under close examination. In a recent interview with Katie Couric, for instance, Fiorina delivered a four-minute riff on climate change that the National Review enthused "shows how to address the left on climate change." The only problem, as David Roberts pointed out, was that every single thing she said in it was wrong.
But if presidential campaigns were decided by fact checkers, Al Gore would have won in a landslide. Fiorina is, for now, able to do what her competitors aren't: command a stage, speak in specifics, project knowledge, and elicit roars from a crowd. She's a political outsider in a campaign that favors outsiders, an orthodox conservative at a moment when Republicans are terrified of Donald Trump's heterodoxies, and a woman in a year when most Republicans think Hillary Clinton's main advantage is her gender. And she's now won two debates against the most talented Republican field in a generation.
Fiorina is going to be a force to be reckoned with, even if it's going to leave fact checkers and policy analysts pulling their hair out.
BTW, I just grabbed the times everyone got to speak last night. There were only four candidates on stage for CNN's first debate and the moderators had their work cut out for them. The candidates in Wednesday's debates are supposed to have 1 minute to answer each question, according to CNN. And each candidate was to have 30 seconds to respond to another candidate's answer if his or her name was mentioned. Moderator Jake Tapper, who acknowledged that it would be a challenge to enforce those rules for so many candidates, said "I don't know if bringing out a whip and a lion tamer's chair would help but we're just going to try to enforce the rules and ask the questions and see what happens."
Here is NPR's final tally for how much air time each main stage candidate got in the primetime debate:
Trump: 18:47
Bush: 15:48
Fiorina: 13:30
Carson: 12:56
Christie: 12:36
Rubio: 11:21
Cruz: 10:45
Paul: 10:28
Kasich: 9:44
Huckabee: 9:20
Walker: 8:29
And the 6 p.m. debate tally:
Graham: 19:47
Santorum: 15:38
Jindal: 13:06
Pataki: 10:58
Our count of the first Republican debate last month showed that frontrunner Donald Trump got more air time than any of the other candidates (around 10 minutes and 30 seconds), followed by Jeb Bush at 8:33. Rand Paul got the least at 4:51. Fox had said it would try to give the candidates equal time to speak.
I just want everyone to remember that in December during the last primary, that Herman Caine was at the top of the polls being Number One. Then, a week later, Michelle Bachmann was the top candidate and then even Rick Santorium was Number one for a few days and again, that was in December and in January those years. The fact that Donald trump is Number One today means nothing in the broad scheme of life. Same goes with Dr. Ben Carson. He seems like a very nice guy, however, neither of these two candidates I mention here will be at that top of any poll by January next year.
The Fox News Republican primary debate in August had all the markings of a disaster in the making — an enormous field of ten candidates, most of them obscure or implausible, sharing a stage for two hours. It turned out to be an unexpectedly triumphant, shockingly compelling television moment. That sent expectations for the second debate skyrocketing. CNN expanded the field to include eleven candidates spread across three hours. Not coincidentally, ad prices were jacked up to historic levels.
The result was ... a rambling, overstuffed disappointment. The anchors did an admirable job of forcing the candidates to directly address one another, but there were far too many candidates on the stage for the series of exchanges to constitute anything resembling a proper debate. The determination to let the flow of the discussion keep ping-ponging from one contender to the next meant a loss of perspective on the issues. The candidates ended up going deep on medical marijuana while only discussing taxes in a cursory way. We heard a lot about the business careers of Carly Fiorina and Donald Trump but almost nothing about the gubernatorial records of Jeb Bush or Scott Walker.
Making the evening even more grueling, the three-hour debate was preceded by an hour-long Junior Varsity debate featuring Bobby Jindal, Lindsey Graham, George Pataki, and Rick Santorum. By the end of the evening, we heard a lot of politicians talking but learned very little. The lion's share of the great moments belonged to Fiorina, who doesn't actually bring a very distinct ideological perspective to the race, and America was reminded that our ultra-long presidential campaign seasons tend to be more slog than thrill-ride.
1) Carly Fiorina was dominant on style
The former Hewlett-Packard CEO was the breakout star of the first debate's JV round, performing so well that CNN tweaked its rules to get her on the main stage for the second debate. Upon entering the big leagues she killed it once again, managing to come across as consistently well-prepared without sounding canned. She was unfazed by attacks on her business record, and pivoted flawlessly to an attack on Trump who he said was "forced into bankruptcy not once, not twice, but a record four times."
Time and again on issues ranging from Iran to immigration she returned to her key theme of "leadership, the kind that's needed to get results."
She also had crowd-pleasing zingers to deliver against the party's shared opponent: "if you want to stump a Democrat, ask them to name an accomplishment of Mrs. Clinton." And with her brilliant mic-drop response to Trump's attacks on her looks she proved to be the first Republican to go toe-to-toe with the Donald and emerge with a clear victory.
That said, the substance of her answers often underwhelmed. She talked about "leadership" a lot in part to cover for the fact that she hasn't developed a real policy program. Her riff on Planned Parenthood and the vicious, awful things she saw on the Planned Parenthood tapes sounded great but was totally inaccurate.
2) A more substantive debate disadvantaged Trump
The Fox News hosts spent much of the first GOP debate going hard, personally, against Donald Trump and he wound up triumphing by holding his own. The CNN debate started off on a similar note with the anchors asking various candidates whether Donald Trump had the temperament necessary to command America's nuclear arsenal. The ensuing scrum played to Trump's strengths, setting the stage for zingers like "Rand Paul doesn't belong on this stage — he's number eleven" and prideful boasting like "I think I have a great temperament."
But as the debate became less Trump-centric and more issue-focused, Trump tended to fade away. He simply hasn't taken the time to be able to speak fluently on a wide range of issues. For a moment, he sprung back to life when the debate focused on immigration. But then it passed again to questions about marijuana, Social Security, and Syria and suddenly the difference between real political professionals and a TV showman like Trump.
3) Bobby Jindal and Lindsey Graham highlighted a big GOP divide
The most interesting exchange of the JV debate came near the end through when former rising star and Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal got into it with Senator Lindsey Graham over the dominant question dividing today's Republican Party — not policy, but tactics.
Jindal forcefully pressed the case for tactical extremism, calling on congressional Republicans to adopt a much more confrontational approach with the White House and refuse to fund the government unless they got to carry the day on a wide range of policy issues. "Give Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi credit," Jindal implored, "at least they fight for what they believe in." Jindal, showing the flashes of down-home southern charm that were missing in his infamous 2009 State of the Union response, said "it's time to get rid of the Republican Party" if they couldn't muster the ability to defund Planned Parenthood.
Graham took up the challenge and accused Jindal of lying. "You served in the Congress, Bobby" he scolded at one occasion. Later he told Jindal that the presidency comes with mighty responsibilities including "a certain amount of honesty." Obama, Graham observed, "is not going to sign a bill that defunds Obamacare." Graham promised that once he was in the White House, everything Jindal wanted to see happen would happen. But until then "the one thing I am not going to do is shut the government down and undermine our ability to win" in 2016.
This is the big divide between Republicans in Washington. One faction, stronger in the House, wants to press for maximum confrontation. The other faction, stronger in the Senate, wants to lay low and maximize the odds of a successful GOP presidential campaign in 2016. Normally this debate plays out behind closed doors or indirectly in the press. The Jindal-Graham debate was a rare face-to-face version of this crucial argument.
4) Jeb Bush continued to struggle
Jeb Bush continued to deliver a mostly low energy campaign performance. When invited to attack Trump's fitness to handle the nuclear codes, Bush demurred: "I think the voters will make that determination."
He stumbled through some seemingly obvious questions, including one from conservative talk radio host Hugh Hewitt about why his team of foreign policy advisors was so full of retreads from his brother's administration. With flat, affectless delivery Jeb explained that he's recycling his father's and his brother's teams because those are the only Republican presidents the country has had in decades. This, of course, is exactly what bothers people.
Later, Bush got sucked into a long back-and-forth with Ted Cruz about judicial nominations. Cruz offered a clear, concise point: in retrospect, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush made mistakes by appointed David Souter and John Roberts to the Supreme Court. Jeb rambled in response: "I will talk about what I will do as president of the united States as it relates to appointing supreme court justices. We need to make sure that we have justices that with a proven, experienced record of respect for upholding the constitution. That is what we need. We can't have the history in recent past is appoint people that have no experience so that you can't get attacked. And that makes it harder for people to have confidence that they won't veer off on this issue."
Asked to clarify if Roberts fit the bill, Bush fumbled around verbally again. These questions about how he relates to his familiar predecessors are some of the most obvious ones he'll face, and yet Bush still lacks snappy answers.
5) John Kasich keeps winning the hearts of liberals
Ohio governor John Kasich, for a second debate in a row, played the role of "surprisingly sensible" in the eyes of liberal observers.
This time his key outreach to the center was arguing that regardless of the merits of the Iran deal, simply trying to tear it up in January of 2017 isn't a realistic plan. "We need to rebuild our relationships with allies," he said "we are stronger if we work with our friends in Europe." A Kasich administration would necessarily focus on enforcement and observation of the terms of the deal and continued international cooperation.
None of the other candidates agreed with this take, and it's unlikely many GOP primary voters do. But it makes a lot of sense!
6) Ben Carson is extremely low-key
In recent weeks, Ben Carson has surged into second place in national polling behind Donald Trump. His debate performance was far from commanding — he spoke in low-key tones, and often in vague generalities — but he was helped by the fact that nobody seemed to feel like attacking him.
To the extent that Republicans are attracted to a political outsider who's also a famous African-American doctor who tells white conservatives they're basically right about everything, nobody is really doing anything to persuade them to change their mind. Trump is scaring the mainstream Republican politicians, in other words, and Carson is not — despite his strong standing in the polls.
7) Policy papers aren't playing a role
Since the last debate two candidates have released major policy position papers. One a Jeb Bush plan for $3.4 trillion in tax cuts of which about 53 percent will go to the richest one percent of the population. The other is an eight-point plan from Scott Walker that would crush labor unions as a political and economic force in the United States.
Neither was mentioned in the debate.
Nor did the candidates talk about Marco Rubio's tax plan or Chris Christie's Social Security plan or Rand Paul's budget plan.
Big, ambitious, formal policy statements just didn't play much of a role. In part that's because so much air time was occupied by Trump, Carson, and Fiorina — three non-politicians who don't really do white papers. But more fundamentally it speaks to the difficulty of having a focused policy debate with so many different candidates running. The moderators ran a much more earnest debate than the Fox one, but it was very difficult for any distinct ideas or viewpoints to break through given the sheer scale of the event.
Guess what? Even though it was finally brought up by the media last night, (which also BTW, I was psyched that Hewitt finally asked everyone if that Syrian refugee issue had anything to do with us drawing that line in the sand by us not intervening 5 years ago because I said that sentence to my friend at the 830PM hour, and he asked it later on in the evening), there was other news happening around the world. And, it looks like 'we can field a starting basketball squad' using the amount of US-Trained soldiers we have over in Syria. Jeff Sessions calls it a 'Total failure' as again and I am NOT exaggerating it but only '4 or 5' US-trained rebels are fighting in Syria, according to the US general in that hearing yesterday.
Now that is a debacle after how much money we spent in that direction. Only four or five US-trained Syrian rebels are still fighting in the war-torn nation, a top US general told Congress on Wednesday. He acknowledged that Washington's training program is behind schedule, and that the military targets will not be met on time. When asked how many US-trained forces were fighting in Syria, General Lloyd Austin, who leads the US military Central Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee: “The ones that are in the fight, we’re talking four or five.”
He added that Washington will not reach its goal of training 5,000 Syrian fighters anytime soon. The US had originally aimed to have a force of 5,400 by December, to take on Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) in Iraq and Syria.
However, Austin downplayed the significance of the numbers, stressing that the program is “designed to be a complement to all the other things that we’re doing.” He also said he expects the number of fighters to grow over time.
But the numbers of fighters in training is also small, according to Christine Wormuth, the under secretary of defense for policy. She told Congress that only 100-120 people are currently in the program.
“This number is much smaller than we hoped for at this point, partly because we put our volunteers through a very vigorous screening process to meet standards very appropriately set by US Law.”
She added, however, that additional recruits are “in the pipeline.”
During the panel, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ga.) called the program a “total failure,” adding that it's “way past time to react to that failure.”
It comes just two months after Defense Secretary Ash Carter told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the US had only trained the “awfully small number” of approximately 60 Syrian rebel fighters. He said that current vetting procedures are slowing down the training process.
The Pentagon is currently conducting a broad review of the training program. The analysis comes after the initial group of some 54 fighters came under attack in northern Syria. Only a “small number” of those are still in the fight, Austin said on Wednesday.
The Obama administration announced the training program last year, as a way to create a ground force to take on ISIS without having to deploy US forces.
The Pentagon was granted $500 million for the program in 2015, and has requested $600 million for 2016. The administration's goal is to train 15,000 rebels in three years.
Regardless of it all happening for three long hours last night, please stay in touch!
